Fantasy Future Fishing

Discuss general pike fishing topics here.
Eric Edwards
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Re: Fantasy Future Fishing

Post by Eric Edwards » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:39 pm

"What you fail to realise is that there is a huge amount of research work has already been done on predator and prey ratios and it clearly shows that given time time species learn what a new species is a evolves and adapts."

Could you point us in the direction of some of this research please Jason?

Jason Skilton
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Re: Fantasy Future Fishing

Post by Jason Skilton » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:50 am

JohnLucas1316 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:28 pm
Nope, I am just talking about sinensis cormorants. A bird that should be classed as an alien invasive species that did not exist in the UK until the 1980s.
A species that kills literally tons of freshwater fish every day.

My local pit complex has not been surveyed to the best of my knowledge. It is run by the Wildlife Trust and they don't care how many fish there are. Just like the RSPB, they are only bothered that there are a few birds to see and that people spend money in the gift shop.

The native bird species you list are all suffering because of sinensis. You also forgot to mention bittern and osprey.
If you read my post John, I did say ...."plus a few others that do have a smaller impact on fish species" ;)

So if we stay then on track with Phalacrocorax carbo sinensis then, the first colony appeared in 1981 on Abberton Reservoir and then they have spread, so if they have been in the UK for 20+ years, a lot of ecologist would class them to be naturalised, which is the same status we have had granted on some waterways for zander in water bodies in the UK.

So using Abberton as an example, they have been on the reservoir for nearly 40 years, that means that their has been a significant number of life cycle of the prey fish, so in that time they have learnt what this this predator is and they will have learnt or evolved ways to escape, evade and hide from the predator.

I can think of another reservoir where sinensis appeared in the late 80's and they too have an affect on the roach and skimmer bream population, but after some 20+ years, the fishing has recovered. The recovery of the fishery is locally well documented and we are even getting regular matches which then back up that the stock has natural recover and balanced out. I have been out on this water with my finder and down scanner and it is very evident that the roach particularly in the winter then they are predated by sinensis quite heavily have learnt to seek refuges in deeper water.

It is a very complex but interesting subject and as anglers of course we want to protect fish,

There are loads of research papers out they if you look up predator and prey relationships.

JohnLucas1316
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Re: Fantasy Future Fishing

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:59 am

You are right that it is an interesting subject.
I did a post a while ago called " What's it called?" about a mechanism used by roach (probably other fish too) to try to survive during times of stress. I read a paper about the water sports centre at Holme Pierrepont , suggesting that this mechanism would save the roach population there from sinensis predation. The cormorant invasion there was so sudden and strong that there was no chance that the roach could use their survival mechanism. As far as I know, they have never recovered.

I do not share your optimism for the future. I will not accept that Chinese cormorants are British birds, and I don't think any other angler should either.

Jason Skilton
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Re: Fantasy Future Fishing

Post by Jason Skilton » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:49 pm

JohnLucas1316 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:59 am
You are right that it is an interesting subject.
I did a post a while ago called " What's it called?" about a mechanism used by roach (probably other fish too) to try to survive during times of stress. I read a paper about the water sports centre at Holme Pierrepont , suggesting that this mechanism would save the roach population there from sinensis predation. The cormorant invasion there was so sudden and strong that there was no chance that the roach could use their survival mechanism. As far as I know, they have never recovered.

I do not share your optimism for the future. I will not accept that Chinese cormorants are British birds, and I don't think any other angler should either.
So if a species is not born here in the UK its not native? :shock: ....no that's a can of worms :lol:

The trouble with alot of commercial venues is that man has engineered them for our benefit and dense stocked them for fishing. No effort has been made to great the habitat needed for fish to survive without our intervention. What they need is a place to live,hide, breed and feed.

What you end up with is a hole in the ground, filled with water stuffed with fish. #foxinachickencoop

JohnLucas1316
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Re: Fantasy Future Fishing

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:25 pm

Some people might argue that before the inland cormorant invasion there was no need for commercial fisheries! There were fish in the rivers!

Round where I live there is no point starting a commercial fishery and stocking it with anything other than carp because if you stocked it with silvers they would be gone in no time BECAUSE OF CORMORANTS.

JohnLucas1316
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Re: Fantasy Future Fishing

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:31 pm

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Maybe I am too old fashioned for modern pike fishing.

After all I still regularly enjoy using my Mitchell 300 reels!

Nice talking to you Jason.

Jason Skilton
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Re: Fantasy Future Fishing

Post by Jason Skilton » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:03 am

JohnLucas1316 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:31 pm
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Maybe I am too old fashioned for modern pike fishing.

After all I still regularly enjoy using my Mitchell 300 reels!

Nice talking to you Jason.
;)

The Mitchells 300 where my work houses when I started in 8-)

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