Biomanipulation

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JohnLucas1316
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:52 pm

Biomanipulation

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:51 am

What is the real reason for the biomanipulation experiment proposed by the Wildlife Trust on the Broads?
I have only fished the|Broads a couple of times, and don't have any great knowledge of the area. From what I understand the W.T want to remove the fish from two Broads, one where fishing is currently allowed and one where fishing is not allowed. The W.T say they will put fish back in after the water has cleared.
What I do not understand is what happens to the fish-eating birds (and otters) that the W.T and R.S.P.B. love so much after the fish have been removed?
What are the local grebe, cormorant, heron, bittern, dab chick, kingfisher otter etc going to eat?
The R.S.P.B. installed fish refuges at its Dungeness reserve to "ensure a continued supply of fish to feed over-wintering birds".
Surely deliberately removing fish from the Broads is the opposite of this. Is this a case pf cruelty to birds? Could this case be used to argue against the experiment?
Is the underlying reason behind the experiment simply to get rid of angling? It is easy to imagine that this experiment, along with protection of inland cormorants nationally is the start of a serious attempt by conservation groups to get rid of angling in the UK for good.

Jason Skilton
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Re: Biomanipulation

Post by Jason Skilton » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:39 am

Water quality for abstraction for drinking water is the primary reason.... :roll:

JohnLucas1316
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Re: Biomanipulation

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:14 pm

Is the water used for drinking at the moment, or is this a new use for the Broads? Forgive my ignorance.

Jason Skilton
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Re: Biomanipulation

Post by Jason Skilton » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:18 am

Aloot of fresh water from the Broads are used for drinking water by Essex and Suffolk Water company

JohnLucas1316
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Re: Biomanipulation

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:20 pm

The Wildlife Trust are buying Attenborough nature reserve in Notts from the cement company they have been leasing it from for the last 60 years or so.
I have heard that the first thing they are going to do is close the anglers car park, making access for anglers difficult. It will be interesting to see how long it is before they try to ban angling there.

john currie
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:05 pm

Re: Biomanipulation

Post by john currie » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:08 pm

JohnLucas1316 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:51 am
What is the real reason for the biomanipulation experiment proposed by the Wildlife Trust on the Broads?
I have only fished the|Broads a couple of times, and don't have any great knowledge of the area. From what I understand the W.T want to remove the fish from two Broads, one where fishing is currently allowed and one where fishing is not allowed. The W.T say they will put fish back in after the water has cleared.
What I do not understand is what happens to the fish-eating birds (and otters) that the W.T and R.S.P.B. love so much after the fish have been removed?
What are the local grebe, cormorant, heron, bittern, dab chick, kingfisher otter etc going to eat?
The R.S.P.B. installed fish refuges at its Dungeness reserve to "ensure a continued supply of fish to feed over-wintering birds".
Surely deliberately removing fish from the Broads is the opposite of this. Is this a case pf cruelty to birds? Could this case be used to argue against the experiment?
Is the underlying reason behind the experiment simply to get rid of angling? It is easy to imagine that this experiment, along with protection of inland cormorants nationally is the start of a serious attempt by conservation groups to get rid of angling in the UK for good.
My apologies, I have only just seen this.The main reason for the Hoveton broad biomanipulation is to achieve clear water status.This broad is not used as a reservoir so no drinking water use and very rarely would water be pumped from it for any purpose whatsoever.It is an experiment based on hope and speculation which will lock out tons of bream from a unique spawning ground.The EA fisheries do not believe it should go ahead based on 6 years of investigation yet unnatural England continue to push for it to go ahead.

JohnLucas1316
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:52 pm

Re: Biomanipulation

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:40 am

I have heard that a good way to clear water is to pile in loads of Daphnia. Presumably because they eat suspended plant material, and if you pile in enough of them, the fish don't eat them all and they clear the water.
I imagine that you could buy a lot of Daphnia for the £500,000 that is going to be spent on biomanipulation.
Call me old mister paranoid, but I can't help thinking that this experiment, and other policies (such as the Canal and Rivers Trust advice to the public to not feed bread to ducks) are designed to finally get rid of anglers.

The W.T are asking for donations from the public so that they can buy Attenborough outright, although they have enough money in the bank to buy it several times over. As you know John, they say they need that money in the bank 'to fight anglers'.

JohnLucas1316
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:52 pm

Re: Biomanipulation

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:16 am

I talked to a Natural England employee yesterday, and he explained a few things about biomanipulation.
It seems that a lot of wildlife benefits from clear water status, although the did not say exactly which wildlife. They had thought of piling in tons of Daphnia, but it would be too expensive. He assured me that the fish would be put back in after the water clears, and that improvements carried out to the river Bure mean that Hoveton Broad will stay clear. He assured me that wildlife that relies on the fish in Hoveton will find food in the immediate surrounding area.
So that's ok then.
He also explained that big charities such as the Wildlife Trust have to have enough money in the Bank to keep their businesses going for a while if all funding suddenly stops. So when the boss of the Wildlife Trust stated that they needed millions of pounds in the bank 'to fight anglers', she was probably only joking.

We also talked about the lack of roach in the River Wensum. Natural England say that silted spawning beds, the lack of bankside reeds to spawn against (apparently because the width of the river keeps altering) and signal crayfish are the reasons that roach have declined.
I did a search online and found a site by John Bailey, an angler who knows more than most about East Anglian rivers. He states that the Wensum is still perfect habitat for roach, and the problem is cormorants.
I don't know the Wensum, and have never fished it. Who is right, John or Natural England?
Frustratingly, there always seem to be differences between groups that want to scientifically verify everything, and anglers who can see with their own eyes what is going on. Natural England have probably calculated the numbers of crayfish per square metre of river bed, and counted the number of stalks of reed that roach would spawn against per fifty metres of riverbank, and come to their conclusion. John Bailey has seen flocks of cormorants eating roach. Who is right?

Finally, if the Wensum is full of crayfish, and pike eat crayfish, is the Wensum full of pike? Does anyone on here fish the Wensum for pike?
Has anyone tried using a crayfish pattern lure inched along the river bed?

john currie
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:05 pm

Re: Biomanipulation

Post by john currie » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:55 am

Hallo
The chap is entitled to his opinion but it's all pure speculation.The broad will be closed for 15 years and they have no way of telling how the bream will spawn successfully in a new location.
The Bure improvements,what improvements.?
The Bure will always colour up in flood and this transfers the silt and sediment to the broad.
The changes to the habitat In the 15 years of closure will not suit the Bream so they will no longer as planned be the dominant species on the broad.
The main point is EA fisheries do not want the project to go ahead but unnatural
England do.EA have years of data showing why it cant go ahead and NE have hope and speculation..
Cheers.

JohnLucas1316
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:52 pm

Re: Biomanipulation

Post by JohnLucas1316 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:26 am

The Bure improvements are apparently about catchment sensitive farming, preventing stuff going into the river from farmland, that has historically coloured the water up.

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